The Expat Sage Podcast

The UK Relocation Reality Check

The Expat Sage

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0:00 | 22:03

One hour. That’s all it can take to turn a dream arrival at Heathrow into a four-month pet quarantine bill and a full-blown relocation crisis. We dig into the real machinery behind moving from the United States to the United Kingdom, using one core principle that keeps showing up everywhere: sequencing. When the order of steps is wrong, it’s not a minor delay, it can knock you off the path entirely. 

We walk through the major UK visa routes and the growing shift to digital immigration status as e-visas replace physical BRP cards. Then we hit the financial reality American expats can’t ignore: the IRS still taxes US citizens on worldwide income, even after you’ve registered with HMRC. We break down why PFIC rules make everyday UK investing risky, how the US-UK tax treaty and foreign tax credits can help, and why a specialized US-UK tax professional is often the difference between a clean setup and years of painful cleanup. 

From there, we tackle the on-the-ground hurdles that surprise people after landing: the UK banking and housing catch 22, the fintech workaround with services like Wise, Revolut, and Monzo, and the cost of living illusion where rent can look cheaper but purchasing power drops with UK salary norms and higher fuel and energy costs. We also cover the immigration health surcharge for NHS access, the proof-of-address loop when registering with a GP, the 12-month clock on a US driver’s license, and the rigid UK pet travel timeline that can punish even small mistakes. 

If you’re planning a US to UK move, listen, share this with someone who’s dreaming about it, and subscribe for more practical deep dives. After you hit play, what part of the process feels most intimidating to you?

You can find more information in the article "Relocating from the United States to the United Kingdom: Pre-Planning Advice"

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Moving, Working, and Investing for Americans Abroad

Heathrow Nightmare And The Real Stakes

SPEAKER_00

So I want you to imagine standing right there at the customs desk at Heathrow Airport.

SPEAKER_01

Oh man. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

You know, you've got your passport in your hand, your bags are all collected, and you are just, you're ready to start this brand new life in the United Kingdom.

SPEAKER_01

The dream, right.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. The dream. But uh instead of walking out to hail one of those iconic black cabs, you are in a total, absolute panic.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Because of the dog.

SPEAKER_00

Because of the dog. Because it turns out that the uh the tapeworm medication that your dog took before the flight, it was administered exactly 121 hours ago.

SPEAKER_01

Ouch.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Instead of the legally mandated maximum of 120 hours.

SPEAKER_01

Just one hour.

SPEAKER_00

Just one single hour over. And because of that, your dog is literally going into quarantine for four months at your own expense.

SPEAKER_01

Which is, I mean, it's devastating.

SPEAKER_00

It's a nightmare. Your dream relocation just instantly became a total bureaucratic nightmare.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell And you know, that 120-hour window, it's it is a very real, very unforgiving regulation. The margin for error when you're crossing international borders with, well, essentially your entire life, it is effectively zero.

SPEAKER_00

Zero.

SPEAKER_01

We all tend to focus on the end goal, right? The historic architecture, the quaint countryside, proper pubs. And we just completely underestimate the sheer uh mechanical complexity of actually getting there.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell, which is why we are here. So welcome to this deep dive. Today, our mission is to basically shatter that romanticized fantasy for you. Aaron Powell Sorry, everyone Yeah, apologies in advance. But we really need to look at the actual engine room of moving from the United States to the United Kingdom.

SPEAKER_01

We really do.

SPEAKER_00

We're pulling all of this from an incredibly detailed, comprehensive pre-planning guide that is dedicated specifically to this exact relocation.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell And it is dense.

SPEAKER_00

It is so dense. Yeah. Okay, let's unpack this because my goal here is to translate this giant manual into a functional roadmap for you. You know, we want to save you from that airport meltdown.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. And uh the most crucial concept to grasp from the source material actually isn't about deciding like what items to ship or finding a cute neighborhood.

SPEAKER_00

Right. It's not about packing boxes.

Sequencing Rules Everything In Relocation

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell Not at all. The entire guide revolves around sequencing.

SPEAKER_00

Sequencing.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. The order in which you execute these steps is literally everything. Doing things out of order doesn't just, you know, cause a minor delay. It can actively disqualify you for moving.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Wow. And the source makes that terrifyingly clear right in the introduction, actually.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell It does not hold back.

SPEAKER_00

No, it explicitly warns you against making any irreversible life choices. Like, uh do not put your house on the market.

SPEAKER_01

Do not do.

SPEAKER_00

Do not hand in your resignation at work, not until you have officially secured the legal permission to exist in the UK.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Because the red tape dictates your life timeline, not the other way around.

Visa Paths And The Shift To E-Visas

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you have to satisfy the government before you can satisfy your own personal goals. Which means, obviously, you need a visa.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Ross Powell You need a visa. And the guide outlines several distinct pathways for this, depending on, well, what you bring to the UK economy.

SPEAKER_00

Like the skilled worker visa, right? Yeah. Which the source says is the most common route.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell It is, yeah. But it requires a licensed UK sponsor. You can't just show up and look for a job. Right. And there's a minimum salary threshold, which is currently hovering around uh 26,200 pounds. It essentially acts as an economic filtration system.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell, which is wild to think about. But they also list uh the health and care worker visa, which is specifically for medical professionals, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

And then there's student visas, family visas, and even these highly specialized routes like the um the global talent visa or the innovator founder visa if you're an entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell Exactly. But there's a really important shift happening right now with the physical reality of these visas. It's undergoing a massive structural change.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Right, the digital thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. The source really highlights that the UK is transitioning completely away from physical BRP cards.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell The biometric residence permits.

SPEAKER_01

Right. And this shift to digital visas, it's fundamentally changing how immigrants prove their status.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell So you don't get a card anymore.

SPEAKER_01

Trevor Burrus No. Instead of carrying around this piece of plastic that acts as your, you know, your golden ticket, your right to live and work and rent in the UK is becoming an entirely digital database entry.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. Linked straight to your passport.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell Exactly. Which I mean, it streamlines the border process, sure, but it also places a super heavy reliance on digital infrastructure working flawlessly.

SPEAKER_00

Which is terrifying.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Imagine standing there and needing to prove your legal right to be in the country and the app is down.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell I would be sweating, just absolutely sweating.

SPEAKER_01

But stressful.

Dual Taxes And The PFIC Trap

SPEAKER_00

But okay, let's talk about the absolute financial shocker that is hidden in this transition. Because you get your visa, you arrive, and you naturally inform HM Revenue and Customs HMRC, their tax agency, that you are here and ready to pay UK taxes. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01

Like a good resident.

SPEAKER_00

Right. But the bizarre reality for American expats is that the United States taxes its citizens on their worldwide income. Forever. Forever. It doesn't matter where you physically live. That is just it's crazy to me. Moving abroad doesn't mean breaking up with the IRS. It's honestly just opening up a polyamorous relationship with the IRS and HMRC.

SPEAKER_01

That is exactly what it is.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Both entities are demanding full transparency. They are constantly looking at your wallet. So I mean, how is an expat supposed to navigate investing for retirement or just saving money when both countries want a piece of the pie?

SPEAKER_01

It's a huge hurdle. And the force actually mentions some truly intimidating constraints here. It specifically warns people to steer clear of things called PFICs.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, yes. PFICs. What even is that?

SPEAKER_01

Let's look at the mechanism behind that, because PFICs are a notorious trap for expats. PFIC stands for passive foreign investment company. Okay. In plain terms, if an American expat buys a standard everyday European mutual fund or like a basic index fund.

SPEAKER_00

Just like a normal retirement fund.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. If you buy that, the IRS classifies it as a PFIC.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

Because the IRS created these rules to prevent really wealthy people from hiding money in offshore tax shelters.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I see.

SPEAKER_01

But the dragnet basically catches ordinary middle class expats just trying to save. And the taxation on a PFIC is incredibly punitive. It can often wipe out any actual gains through these like super complex formulas and top marginal tax rates.

SPEAKER_00

So it effectively traps American expats completely out of the standard local investing market. Like you can't just use the same basic index funds that your British neighbor is using?

SPEAKER_01

You really can't. The source provides a very, very narrow workaround for this. You generally have to stick to U.S. domiciled funds that hold what's called UK reporting status.

SPEAKER_00

That sounds incredibly complicated.

SPEAKER_01

It is, but if we connect this to the bigger picture, the global financial system isn't actually designed to bankrupt individuals just for moving across an ocean.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that's a relief.

SPEAKER_01

Right. This is why the US and the UK maintain a tax treaty. The treaty utilizes mechanisms like foreign tax credits or FTCs. And that basically allows you to offset what you owe the IRS dollar for dollar based on the taxes you've already paid to HMRC in the UK.

SPEAKER_00

Right. But the treaty doesn't just automatically apply itself, does it? The burden of executing that flawlessly is entirely on you.

SPEAKER_01

100%. The paperwork is monumental. And the source is totally adamant about this. You must consult a specialized US-UK tax professional long before you move.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, a standard homecoming accountant back in Ohio simply will not understand the interplay between U.S. domiciled funds, UK capital gains rules, and you know, these treaty elections.

SPEAKER_01

They won't. And a mistake here isn't just a headache. It can trigger severe, compounding financial penalties from two sovereign nations simultaneously.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Which is the absolute last thing you want.

SPEAKER_01

Literally the last thing.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so let's assume you've somehow navigated that minefield. You have your e-visa, your cross-border TAC advisor is retained and paid, and you have finally landed in London.

SPEAKER_01

You made it.

Banking And Renting Catch 22

SPEAKER_00

You made it. Well you need a place to sleep and a way to buy groceries. But this brings us to a part of the guide that outlines a maddening, basically systemic paradox that bridges your legal residency with your daily life.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, the banking and housing catch 22.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It is often the very first major psychological hurdle expats face upon arrival.

SPEAKER_00

Because it is completely absurd. I was reading this and I couldn't believe it. To open an account at a traditional high street UK bank, like a Barclays or an HSBC, you must provide proof of a UK address.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Usually a council tax bill or a utility bill in your name.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. But to get an address, you need to rent a flat. And landlords in England are legally obligated to perform a right-to-rent check to verify your immigration status. Right. While at the same exact time, balletting agents demand a UK bank account to pass their financial referencing and to set up your direct debits for the rent.

SPEAKER_01

It's a perfect circle of bureaucracy. The government essentially deputizes these private landlords to act as an extension of border control through that right-to-rent policy.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. Yeah, I didn't think of it like that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the landlords are terrified of massive fines for housing someone without status, so their vetting process is incredibly rigid. They demand local banking history, which the traditional banks absolutely refuse to give you without the housing history that the landlords require.

SPEAKER_00

It's like needing the key to open the box that contains the key.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

You are just trapped in this bureaucratic loop where every institution demands the output of the other institution before they will even talk to you. Okay. How are you supposed to break this loop when you are like living out of a suitcase in week one?

SPEAKER_01

You need a transitional mechanism. And the source highlights a really modern bridge for this. You bypass the legacy high street banks entirely at the start, and you use digital fintech platforms.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so apps on your phone.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Companies like Wise, Revolute, or Monzo have totally revolutionized this initial step for expats. Oh so they allow you to open an e-money account using biometric verification from your passport and your visa status, often without demanding a long-term local utility bill on day one.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Okay, so the FinTech app serves as your initial financial anchor.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

You use that digital account to hold your converted US dollars as British pounds, which then gives you the actual local routing numbers. They call the sort code an account number over there, right?

SPEAKER_01

Nice, the sort code.

SPEAKER_00

Right. And that satisfies the letting agent.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell Exactly. But you have to pair that digital financial bridge with a physical bridge.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Like a temporary place.

SPEAKER_01

Right. The guide highly recommends booking a short-term holiday let or a service department for your first month. That gives you a temporary base of operations.

SPEAKER_00

Right, because you aren't signing a long-term lease yet, so you bypass that super strict referencing temporarily.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell Exactly. Which gives you the breathing room to view permanent rentals in person, get a feel for the neighborhoods, and then use your new FinTech account to actually pay the deposit when you find a place.

Cost Of Living Illusion Explained

SPEAKER_00

That is such a smart workaround. Now, while we are untangling rent and money, the guide drops a really fascinating warning about the cost of living.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, this is a big one.

SPEAKER_00

Because if you just look at absolute numbers, rent in the UK, even in major hubs like London, is often noticeably lower than comparable major U.S. cities like New York or San Francisco.

SPEAKER_01

It looks like a great deal on paper.

SPEAKER_00

Right. And the grocery bills are shockingly low too, so it feels like this massive win for your wallet.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell But the text highlights a really crucial caveat here. It's the cost of living illusion. The while the absolute numbers for rent might be lower, your local purchasing power often drops proportionately, if not more so, because UK salaries for equivalent professional roles are generally quite a bit lower than their U.S. counterparts.

SPEAKER_00

Which is a huge adjustment. And on top of that, your daily consumables might actually cost more. Like the guide specifically points out that petrol gasoline is priced by the liter, not the gallon.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Meaning filling up a car is vastly more expensive over there. And utilities and energy costs also track way higher than in the U.S.

SPEAKER_01

A baseline expenses just shift categories. You might say 500 bucks on your monthly lease, but you are bleeding money on heating your home in the winter and fueling your commute.

SPEAKER_00

It's all relative.

SPEAKER_01

Very much so.

NHS Surcharge And Getting Care

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so speaking of everyday life, let's look at the actual civic systems you interact with once you're finally settled in that flat, you know, getting sick and getting around. The National Health Service and the roads.

SPEAKER_01

Two absolute fundamental pillars of British civic infrastructure.

SPEAKER_00

Right. And the NHS is globally famous for being free at the point of use. Everybody knows that.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

But the source completely shatters the myth that this applies to expats the moment they land. You don't just walk into a clinic for free. You pay a massive toll at the border.

SPEAKER_01

You do.

SPEAKER_00

Expats are hit with the immigration health surcharge, or the IHS, during the visa application process itself. And it's currently$1,035 per year for most adults and 776 trees for students.

SPEAKER_01

And what makes that surcharge truly devastating for a lot of people's budgets is that it must be paid upfront for the entire duration of the visa.

SPEAKER_00

Right, all at once.

SPEAKER_01

So if you, your spouse, and your two children are granted three-year skilled worker visas, you are paying over 12,000 pounds in health surcharges before the UK government even processes your paperwork.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my gosh. That is a that's a down payment on a house.

SPEAKER_01

It is a massive chunk of change.

SPEAKER_00

And then once you've paid that ransom and actually arrived, you still have to navigate the local bureaucracy. You have to register with a local GP, which requires you guessed it, the very proof of address we just spent weeks trying to secure in the Housing Catch 22.

SPEAKER_01

It all comes back to the address.

SPEAKER_00

Always. And the source also clarifies that while the emergency room ANI over there is free, everyday things like prescriptions, dental care, and eye care still carry standardized out-of-pocket charges.

SPEAKER_01

Right. And what's fascinating here is how the IHS alters the psychology of health care for an American expat.

SPEAKER_00

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01

Well, in the US, you are accustomed to monthly premiums and deductibles, right? It's a drip feed of costs. Yeah. But by forcing you to pay thousands of pounds up front, the UK government essentially makes you prepay a multi-year subscription. It completely changes the perceived value of the system. Oh, I see. When you finally do see a doctor for free, you are acutely aware that you already bought that access with a massive lump sum back at the border.

SPEAKER_00

That is a profound perspective shift. You're definitely not taking it for granted.

SPEAKER_01

Definitely not.

Driving Reset After 12 Months

SPEAKER_00

So let's shift gears to how you actually drive to that doctor's appointment. Because the rules regarding driving blew my mind.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, the driving rules are a shock to the system.

SPEAKER_00

Your valid U.S. driving license is legally recognized in Great Britain for exactly 12 months after you become a resident.

SPEAKER_01

And on day 366, that piece of plastic is completely legally void.

SPEAKER_00

Void. Wait, so someone who has navigated the 405 in LA for 20 years, who has driven cross-country and has a totally spotless driving record, they suddenly become a learner driver again after 12 months.

SPEAKER_01

They do. Because unlike many other nations, the U.S. has no exchange agreement with the UK for driver's licenses.

SPEAKER_00

That is wild. The source states Americans basically must submit a D1 form, pay a 43-3 tree for a provisional license, and then pass both the notoriously difficult UK theory test and the practical driving test.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. They must literally put the L plates, the big red learner plates, on their car and be supervised by a qualified driver if they haven't passed the test before that 12-month period expires.

SPEAKER_00

Are you kidding me? So what does this all mean? How does a fully grown adult handle this total regression and independence? It feels kind of insulting.

SPEAKER_01

It does feel punitive, I know, but it is deeply rooted in very different standards of civic safety and physical infrastructure. Think about the UK driving environment. It features really narrow, winding roads, complex multi-lane roundabouts, and a massive reliance on manual transmissions. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Stick shifts is the default there.

SPEAKER_01

Trevor Burrus, Jr. Exactly. So the lack of a mutual recognition agreement, it isn't actually a slight against Americans. It's an acknowledgement that surviving in American interstate doesn't automatically qualify you to safely navigate a 900-year-old village high street where the road is barely wide enough for one car.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, that's fair.

SPEAKER_01

It forces a total reset. You must actively prove you understand their specific hazard perceptions and their right-of-way rules before you are allowed to operate heavy machinery in their civic space.

SPEAKER_00

It forces you to humble yourself, basically, and learn their system from scratch.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

Pet Travel Timelines And Quarantine Risk

SPEAKER_00

All right, so we've tackled visas, the dual tax nightmare, the housing loop, the upfront healthcare toll, and the driving reset. The final phase detailed in the source material is, for many, the single most stressful element of the entire relocation.

SPEAKER_01

Without a doubt.

SPEAKER_00

Moving your pet.

SPEAKER_01

Bringing your animals across the border is governed by timelines so rigid they honestly rival military logistics.

SPEAKER_00

It's intense. The UK utilizes the pet travel scheme, which is known as P80s. And just like the human visa process, the sequencing here is absolute.

SPEAKER_01

Sequencing is life or death here.

SPEAKER_00

Literally. Your pet must have an ISO-compliant microchip implanted. And crucially, this must happen before the rabies vaccination is administered.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. If you vaccinate the dog and then microchip it the very next day, the entire process is legally invalid.

SPEAKER_00

Why does that specific order matter so much?

SPEAKER_01

The underlying logic is biometric verification. The government needs absolute, undeniable proof that the specific animal receiving the vaccination is the exact same animal arriving at their border.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

The microchip establishes the unalterable identity first. Only then is the vaccine attached to that identity.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Okay, that makes sense. So following the vaccination, you trigger a mandatory 21-day waiting period.

SPEAKER_01

You can't travel before that.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Then you need a highly specific Great Britain pet health certificate. It has to be issued by an accredited vet and then federally endorsed by APIS, which is the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service in the U.S. within a 10-day window of your arrival.

SPEAKER_01

And if you have a dog, this is where the timeline becomes just truly terrifying.

SPEAKER_00

It really is. They require a tapeworm treatment administered by a vet no less than 24 hours and no more than 120 hours before your precise arrival time in the UK.

SPEAKER_01

That 96-hour window is where most of the panic originates for pet owners.

SPEAKER_00

Here's where it gets really interesting, though. I mean, 24 to 120 hours, that's not a travel plan. That's the timeline for a bank heist movie.

SPEAKER_01

It really is.

SPEAKER_00

You are trying to sync up a specialized vet visit, the overnight shipping of federal documents, a transatlantic flight, potential layovers, and a customs inspection all into a window of a few days. One delayed flight, one missed FedEx delivery, and you blow the window.

SPEAKER_01

And the penalty for missing that window, as we discussed right at the start of the show, is severe. It's up to four months of quarantine at a government-approved facility, entirely funded by you.

SPEAKER_00

It's heartbreaking to even think about.

SPEAKER_01

It is, but we have to look at the why behind this rigidity. The UK is an island nation. And more importantly, it is a proudly and fiercely rabies-free island. Right. These rules, they aren't just bureaucratic hurdles designed to annoy pet owners. They are a literal biological firewall. The local ecosystem has no natural defense against these diseases, so the border control serves as the absolute defense mechanism.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. That intense pet timeline really contextualizes the source's most prominent recommendation, which is the six plus months before checklist.

SPEAKER_01

You need every bit of that time.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, when you map out the 21-day vaccine weights, the 10-day APS endorsements, and the 120-hour tapeworm countdowns, you realize you can't just wing this. This move requires the precision of a half-year project management campaign.

Six Month Checklist And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_01

You are dismantling a life built over decades and attempting to reassemble it in a completely different legal and financial ecosystem. The six-month runway is the absolute minimum time required to ensure the sequencing aligns properly.

SPEAKER_00

I believe it. So let's review the core reality we've uncovered in this pre-planning guide today. First, you have to lock down the legal right to exist via the visa before making any permanent life changes.

SPEAKER_01

Step one.

SPEAKER_00

Second, retain specialized counsel to navigate the dual tax reality so the IRS and HMRC don't consume all your savings. Third, leverage those fintech bridges to break the banking and housing catch 22.

SPEAKER_01

Get that Monzo or WISE account.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. Fourth, be prepared to pay thousands up front for the NHS, and eventually you're going to sit in the car with an examiner to earn back your driving independence.

SPEAKER_01

With the L plates.

SPEAKER_00

With the L plates. Yeah. And finally, treat your pet's border crossing with the precision of a biological security operation.

SPEAKER_01

The logistical mountain is immense. It really is. But as you, the listener, navigate this pre-planning guide for yourself, I want to leave you with a thought regarding that cost of living illusion we discussed earlier. We spent a lot of time today on the pure mechanics of crossing the border, but there is a profound psychological shift that happens once the boxes are actually unpacked. If your absolute costs drop, but your local purchasing power is also lower due to local wage structures, what does that actually do to your lifestyle? When you cross an ocean, navigate the visas, and finally secure that flat, are you merely changing your mailing address or are you actively redefining your socioeconomic status within a completely different cultural class system?

SPEAKER_00

Man. That is a staggering question to ponder as you sit in the waiting room for your provisional driving test.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Moving abroad isn't just a change of scenery. It's a fundamental translation of who you are into a completely new system. Well, thank you for joining us on this deep dive. As you map out your own transatlantic adventure, keep questioning the mechanics of these systems, respect those timelines, and remember if you can survive the paperwork, that proper cup of tea. is waiting for you on the other side. We'll catch you on the next deep dive.